dan  on March 27, 2006

I think I am right in saying that in France there is no recommendation to avoid soft/unpasturised cheeses. I’ve certainly had discussions with French people where we have marvelled at the difference between the two countries.

I’d say that the only sure way to be safe is to eat smoked cheese

conor  on March 28, 2006

Well I do have some smoked Gubbeen in the fridge!

But the absence of a consistent message does drive me crazy.

We ate in Cafe Paradiso this evening. It is one of the best vegetarian restaurants in the British Isles. About a third of the dishes had cheese in them and we had to get the poor waiter to find out which ones were pasteurised and which ones were not.

In the end, Catherine had a starter with Knockalara sheep’s cheese which is pasteurised. When it came out we realised it was soft cheese but on balance we thought is should be fine because it was also grilled.

Any cheese experts out there who can give a sensible non-nanny-state non-EU-rule-book answer to this?

Kristi  on April 7, 2006

I 22 weeks pregnant and will be coming to Ireland for a 2 week vacation. In the U.S. we are told a mixture of information from don’t eat soft cheeses to only eat pasturiezed cheese. In the U.S. almost all cheeses bought in the normal grocery stores are pasturiezed so I haven’t really worried about it. There are also laws here requireing pastureization, though I don’t know what they are specifically. I am really worried about my visit to Ireland and eating/drinking non-pastureized products. Are all milks pastureized? Are items such as cheese and milk required to be labeled? Any information would be appreciated

conor  on April 7, 2006

Hi Kristi,
You should have no concerns eating here. All milk is pasteurised and 99% of cheese too.

All raw milk cheeses in supermarkets are labelled as such. In restaurants, you would be best to avoid goat’s cheese and the best way to find out if they are using a non-pasteurised cow’s cheese is that they name it e.g. Caesar Salad with Desmond cheese. Just ask about the name and they will tell you. If you want to be 100% sure, just ask about any cheese dish and they will know. But again 99% of restaurants use pasteurised cheese too.

You should expect things to be the same as home (except maybe without the artificial hormones in our milk )

Karen  on April 30, 2006

I am really worried, I am 20 weeks pregnant and went out last night and ate a pizza that we thought had feta cheese on (we have been told this is fine to eat when pregnant) but after the meal realised it was in fact Goats cheese.

Does anyone know what harm it can do to our unborn child?

conor  on April 30, 2006

Hi Karen,

If you are very concerned, you should call your GP. Where are you based? USA?

I’d be surprised if goat’s cheese on a pizza was not pasteurized. The main concern with goat’s cheese is listeria and thorough cooking kills that too. Note that Feta is also made from Goat or Sheeps milk.

Everything I have read says that you should be fine but you should really check with a doctor to set your mind at ease.

ecobabe  on July 13, 2006

Ah this question is so difficult to answer. I searched throughout pregnancy for a definitive list of what I could not eat, but never found one. It seems that the health authorities in each country have different opinions as to what is safe and what isn’t. I recently found a UK report that said UNPASTEURISED cheese was OK and that it was only mould ripened, and blue vein type cheeses that were to be avoided. Here in Australia we are told to only eat hard cheese and processed cheeses like Philadelphia cheese.

AHHHHHH if anyone ever finds the definitive list of what cheeses are listeria risks can you publish it in every daily newspaper, worldwide and regularly.

jennifer  on September 15, 2006

I am from the US. I am currently pregnant and have one child. Doctors here used to say no soft cheese, but now they are saying that it is fine if it is pasteurized or cooked. This means you may have cooked Brie even if it’s not cooked. But they do recommend avoiding bleu cheese and other soft, unpasteurized cheeses. Even so, the risk of getting listeria even if you do eat this is very small so don’t get your panties in a bundle if you accidentally had some

jennifer  on September 15, 2006

I just thought I would mention an article I just read that says the leading cause of listeria is not soft cheese but deli meats and hot dogs. I read a couple of articles about listeria in France, which also pointed to meat products as the cause of listeria.
http://www.consumerfed.org/pdfs/CFA_stmt_on_FoodNet_data_4.13.06.pdf#search=%22america%20listeria%20rates%22

jennifer  on September 15, 2006

Oops! I meant in my first post that brie would be okay if it is cooked, even if it is not pasteurized.

conor  on September 15, 2006

I often get the feeling that the food stalinists just come up with this stuff regularly to keep themselves in jobs.

For example, compare the attitude about drinking wine during pregnancy in France to that in the USA or even Ireland.

Our attitude is always to use a bit of common sense and we have four incredibly healthy children as a result. Every time they come out with a new story about something that is bad for you, I completely ignore it until they provide actual statistics.

Nancy  on October 2, 2006

I’m sorry but what Dan said is incorrect. I happen to live in France and French doctors do tell pregnant women to avoid all soft cheeses.
My doctor that even when trying to get pregnant they should be avoided.

conor  on October 2, 2006

Thanks for the information Nancy. In general it seems that soft cheeses are frowned upon. But we are still not clear if the goat’s cheese thing is all goat’s cheeses or just the soft ones.

And of course where is the dividing line on “soft”? Are those long round chevre’s considered soft or not?

Catriona  on October 7, 2006

http://www.eatwell.gov.uk/asksam/agesandstages/pregnancy/

See trhis link from the food standards agengy. I remember from reading when I was pregnant about it being the rind that is the problem as it is a form of mould - that’s the problem with brie etc. too.

Louise Taylor  on October 14, 2006

I am so so worried, I am 7 and a half wks pregnant and ordered a goat’s cheese salad from a restaurant yesterday. Only after I had eaten it did I wonder about its safety. Now I am out of my mind with worry!

Please help, will one small portion of goat’s cheese make a BIG difference, and what can it do?

conor  on October 14, 2006

Hey Louise,
I always say to ring your GP to get confirmation and reassurance. I think the rule with goat’s cheese and other similar foods is that they are not recommended rather than being extremely dangerous.

It’s all a matter of percentages and it does strike me that there are many other environmental toxins that we never think about that we should all (not just pregnant women) be more concerned about.

Christiana  on November 14, 2006

Does anyone know whether Buffalo Muzzarella cheese (usually imported from Greece) is ok to eat? I read the label and it does not say whether the Buffallo milk is pasteurised, so I assumed it is not…

conor  on November 18, 2006

Good question. In Ireland I think you have to label unpasteurised foods so that people are aware. I’ll check the next one I buy.

Frances  on January 25, 2007

I am so confused and very worried I have been reading your posted messages and need advise that I haven’t been able to get form GP. I am seven months pregant and spent the 11th week of my pregancy in Italy eating parmesean and pecorino chees and mozzerella nearly every day. I read that they were safe to eat before leaving but was ill for a few days when I came back with flu like symptoms my GP dismissed any idea that I wouldnt have listeria and said it was a virus I am so confused and out of my mind with worry, no test was offered by the GP or midwife?

Advise from any knowledgeable souls please??!!

Frances

conor  on January 25, 2007

Frances, I am shocked that your concerns were not taken more seriously. Irrespective of the symptoms, pregnancy is a very sensitive time for a woman and all worries should be addressed to your satisfaction. I can only assume that the symptoms of listeria are generally more severe than you presented with.

With my usual statement of IANAD (I am not a Doctor), my reading here indicates that hard cheeses and mozzarella are safe.

I assume you have had scans since then and the baby is progressing to the consultant’s satisfaction?

As I said in the other comments, eating soft cheeses and goat’s cheeses only increases the risk of listeria rather than making it very likely (I’d love to get my hands on the stats). If such cheeses caused rampant problems, they wouldn’t be allowed to be sold at all.

I hope you can get some comfort from the URL I pointed to above and I wish you a worry-free pregnancy and birth.

laura  on March 5, 2007

I am 19 weeks pregnant, American married to an Italian. In the US much of our cheeses are pasteurized - in fact soft goat cheeses are as well. Note - in Italy, there is great concern regarding eating the peels on fruit - which I’ve not heard from a US doctor. . . different issues arise in differing countries based on what the gov’t deem as safe practices. It can be a bit confusing! Keep asking questions is the best best.

laura  on March 5, 2007

I am 19 weeks pregnant, American, married to an Italian. In the US much of our cheeses are pasteurized - in fact soft goat cheeses are as well. Note - in Italy, there is great concern regarding eating the peels on fruit - which I’ve not heard from a US doctor. . . different issues arise in differing countries based on what the gov’t deem as safe practices. It can be a bit confusing! Keep asking questions is the best bet.

laura  on March 5, 2007

Mozzarella cheeses are indeed mostly pasteurized in Italy. However, parmeggiano reggiano is not. The initial symptom of listeria - I’ve read - is a severe headache. It sounds like you have only the flu - which is very unpleasant but sounds like you will be OK. I do indeed hope that you have a very safe and worry-free pregnancy here on out! (I just panicked and called a restaurant re: a soft goat cheese I ate - and learned - thankfully that it is pasteurized. . . best to you.

conor  on March 5, 2007

I totally agree with you about asking questions. Never take any advice amouns something important at face value.

laura  on March 5, 2007

i was just looking at this blog - and it’s been a year since it began. did you have your baby? i want to be sure that all went ok.this blog is certainly helping me in my pregnancy right now . . .

conor  on March 5, 2007

Hey Laura,

The blog has been around 6 years (!) but this post was originally written nearly a year ago.

Our baby is perfect. She was born on Nov 14th and is a little angel. Last night she slept from 10pm until nearly 8am! She eats, burps, sleeps and smiles constantly.

Picture of her in a baby bucket here.

laura  on March 5, 2007

Well done! Very very happy for you all - and pleased that she slept so well last night! Let’s hope that this is a good trend for all. Cheers!

laura  on March 5, 2007

She is soooooooooo cute! Thank you for the photo!

Anne  on April 5, 2007

Ok I have read so much that I am confused. Is Parmesean Reggiano safe to eat or not during pregnancy? Is it pasturized or not? Please advise. It was prepared tonight in spagetti Carbonara and now I am FREAKED out!!!!
Please let me know.
Thanks
Anne

conor  on April 5, 2007

Anne, proper Parmigiano-Reggiano is not pasteurised but it is safe to eat according to everything I have read. The problem cheeses are the soft ones. This page has a good simple list of do’s and don’ts with cheese in pregnancy.

laura  on April 5, 2007

Anne, I am six months pregnant and have had the same food/cheese dilemnas. I live in San Francisco but am married to an Italian - so cheese is a big deal in our home. I have asked the three cheese importers here that I know - and all have advised similarly. The USFDA (US Food and Drug Administration) is tough on cheese imports. So much so that they will change their rules in an instant. They are constantly testing and monitoring cheese - and sending questionable cheese back - at the slightest indication of a bacteria. That said, Reggiano Parmigiano has been a staple in the US now for several years without issue. And Conor is correct - the soft cheeses are the ones to really watch. I’ve been eating Parmigiano and have a very active little baby - and my OB/GYN also gave me the thumbs up. Good luck with a healthy pregnancy and buon appetito!

Anne  on April 6, 2007

Thank you all for your information. It eases my mind. We live in Okinawa Japan and are military. I question everyting I eat here. I dont eat the sushi at all and I make sure I know the ingrediants in everything else that I eat. I just dont know if they have the same rules over here about food? If anyone knows please let me know.
Thanks
Anne

laura  on April 6, 2007

Japan - lucky you! To me, eating and food (in general)in Japan is a virtual religious experience. Such care is put in to the selection, preparation and presentation.My guess is that Japanese standards are higher than the US. The food tends to be quite pure - and not as highly processed - although that exists. During my time in Japan (although not pregnancy at the time)I ate several things that I had not a clue about and was never once sick. The opposite can be said for my time in China - which I love - but eating there is not always safe and trustworthy. Ask questions about eveything before you eat (I do this in the US and request that meats are well-done - only four more months of that) and relax and try to enjoy your pregnancy and time there. I hope that you experience the cherry blossoms. . . I believe that was a couple of months ago. Best to you again.

conor  on April 7, 2007

Some day, some day I’m getting to Japan! From 1996 to 2000, all the work I did was for Toshiba (as a customer). I was the only senior guy never to make to to Kawasaki - a big regret for me. Superb sushi in San Jose was as close as I got.

chris  on April 12, 2007

Re the comment regarding only smoked cheese being safe, well according to Mirriam Stoppard:

“you should avoid some smoked cheeses. Smoked cheese, along with other smoked and preserved food such as meat and fish, contain the active agent nitrate. This can react with the haemoglobin in your blood and reduce its oxygen-carrying capacity.”

So which smoked cheese in particualr should I be avoiding? It’s bad enough not being able to eat brie without smoked haddock and smoked cheese being taken away from me too!

conor  on April 12, 2007

Hmm, that’s a new one on me.

But are there not nitrates in rashers and bacon in general due to Potassium Nitrate or is saltpetre not used any more?

Actually, re-reading your quote, she is against preserved food in general so all bacon, salami etc etc is out?

chris  on April 13, 2007

http://www.miriamstoppard.com/article.asp?aid=85

Here is the link. I’m not entirely sure how many different food types she is suggesting are avoided.

I knew certain smoked fish and meat were out because you effectively eat them raw (smoked salmon, certain hams etc.) but I was surprised about smoked haddock because it is smoked, but then cooked.

I shall question my midwife next Tuesday.

I’m not vegetarian, but don’t eat any meat at all and very little fish so cheese is a staple part of my diet so I need to find out exactly which ones I can still indulge in!

Karen  on May 5, 2007

Hi all
Found the web site below today which seemed atleast more specific than the previous ones I have looked at - I am 21 wks pregnant and agog by the lack of information or contradictory information on this subject. Hope this helps. Karen

http://www.babycentre.co.uk/pregnancy/nutrition/foodsafety/cheeseexpert/?_requestid=3634587

Which cheeses are safe to eat when you’re pregnant, and which aren’t?

Anna McGrail answers:
…Pregnant women are advised not to eat soft, mould-ripened cheeses, such as brie or camembert, and blue-veined cheeses, such as danish blue and stilton.

However, thorough cooking should kill any listeria, so it should be safe to eat food containing soft mould-ripened or blue-veined cheeses, provided the food has been properly cooked and is piping hot all the way through.

In healthy adults, infection with listeria can cause a short-lived flu-like illness. Pregnant women, however, can be hit harder by listeria, for the same reason you are more susceptible to everything during pregnancy: your immune system isn’t working as well. Symptoms usually develop several weeks after exposure to the bacteria, which can make it hard to pinpoint exactly which food made you sick. Symptoms may include fever, chills, muscle aches and back pain. Doctors diagnose listeria infection by swabbing a sample from your vagina and cervix and checking your blood. Antibiotics will treat the infection. Newborns can also be tested and treated.

Listeria infection in pregnant women is very rare in the UK, only affecting one in 20,000 pregnancies. Provided you avoid foods with a high risk, you are very unlikely to be affected.

Unpasteurised cheeses imported from abroad or made by small producers are also safe to eat in pregnancy provided they are made from cow’s milk and are not mould-ripened or blue-veined. The Food Standards Agency states that listeria is present in these cheeses in very low numbers and they are therefore not considered a risk during pregnancy. On the other hand, unpasteurised milk (from any animal) is not considered safe. In the USA, pregnant women are advised to avoid feta cheese because of the risk of listeria, but the feta cheese sold in the UK is considered safe to eat during pregnancy.

Cheeses which are SAFE to eat in pregnancy

Hard cheeses:
austrian smoked, Babybel, caerphilly, cheddar, cheshire, derby, double gloucester, edam, emmental, english goat’s cheddar, feta (if bought in the UK), gouda, gruyere, halloumi, havarti, jarlsberg, lancashire, mozzarella, orkney, paneer, parmesan, pecorino (hard), provolone, red leicester.

Soft and processed cheeses:
Boursin, cottage cheese, cheese spread, cream cheese, mascarpone, philadelphia, quark, ricotta.

Yoghurts, fromage frais, soured cream and creme fraiche — any variety, including natural, flavoured and biologically active — are all safe to eat.

Cheeses to AVOID in pregnancy

Mould-ripened soft cheeses:
brie, blue brie, cambozola, camembert, chaumes, pont L’eveque, prince jean, tallegio. vacherin-fribourgeois, weichkaese.

Blue-veined cheeses:
bavarian blue, bergader, bleu d’Auvergne, blue shropshire, cabrales, Danish blue, dolcelatte, doppelrhamstuge, eldel pilz, gorgonzola, manchego, romano, roncal, roquefort, stilton, tommes, wensleydale (blue).

Soft unpasteurised goat and sheep’s cheeses:
chabichou, pyramide, torta del cesar.

Dan B  on June 3, 2007

Your blog post seems to have become a gathering place for information regarding soft cheeses and pregnancy. I figured I’d post info I discovered while doing this same search.

For the UK, I found this page from the University of Sheffield.
http://www.shef.ac.uk/pregnancy_nutrition/nutrition.php?nutrition_id=4.1

which links to these pages regarding listeria and cheeses safe to eat
http://www.shef.ac.uk/pregnancy_nutrition/nutrition.php?nutrition_id=4.2
http://www.shef.ac.uk/pregnancy_nutrition/nutrition.php?kf_id=v

In the US, the FDA also posts the following health information regarding pregnancy.
http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~pregnant/pregnant.html

points to this page re: listeria
http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~pregnant/whillist.html

conor  on June 3, 2007

Thanks for that Dan, much appreciated.

It’s a bit scary that my post is near the top in google.ie for “goat’s cheese and pregnancy”.

laura  on June 4, 2007

At 33 weeks pregnant now . . . . my findings on the cheese / salumi issue . . . .

listeria tends to grow on foods that are covered in a white rind - most salamis, several cheeses. so when in doubt, go without.

listeria lives for a very short amount of time - under 45 days - if a cheese is not pasteurized, but has been aged longer than 45 days - it is a safe bet that all is well.

having said that, when in doubt go without has been my mantra. i was up almost two days at 18 weeks into pregnancy worrying about a specific goat cheese. pregnant women have enough mood changes from hormones - so might consider doing whatever is all possible to have restful nights of sleep and as little anxiety as possible.

my husband has promised me sushi first thing - post delivery - followed by rations of various salumi: prosciutto, bresaola, coppa, salami toscano, etc. and then a cheese course! this will be welcome - but I’m looking forward to a few more months down the line when i can drink wine to my heart’s content!

ecobabe  on June 4, 2007

I don’t know if I agree with the observation that a cheese aged longer than 45 days is safe from listeria infection. Listeria is one of the only food bacteria that lives and reproduces at cool temperatures. So if a non-pasteurised cheese is aged at a cool temp, the listeria bacteria can continue to grow past the 45 day mark.

I still find it amazing how there is so little ‘definitive’ information on what is/isn’t safe to eat during pregnancy in terms of listeria infection. This is my second pregnancy and basically I am only eating hard, not smoked, cheeses and avoiding anything ‘fresh’ from a deli or sandwhich bar that may have become contaminated through the use of utensils, cutting boards, cling film, open refrigeration etc. I’m also again avoiding all raw seafoods (sob sob on the sushi front). I’m being extra careful with washing uncooked fruit and vegies that may have been in direct contact with soil (which listeria can live in) and particularly careful in visiting/drinking from fresh juice bars, as sometimes these places don’t wash their carrots/beetroots etc. Plus all the added food poisoning sources like soft serve icecream, partially cooked chicken, food from a bain marie and the list just continues.

I live in Australia which doesn’t allow the sale of unpasteurised dairy products and has only recently allowed the import of cured meats such as prosciuto, which a proportion of don’t pass customs due to listeria infection as has been recently reported.

I just find it amazing that there isn’t any definitive information on what foods are listeria risks and a list of all foods that should be avoided during pregnancy due to nitrates (smoked foods) mercury (top of the food chain fish) salmonella (raw egg yolks) and I’m sure the list goes on and on and on. I can only guess that people and health departments are fearful of litigation if they were to publish a definitive list.

And here endeth my rant.

laura  on June 4, 2007

i agree on your comment regarding listeria - and how little information is available. mercury, salmonella, e-coli and nitrates have all been well addressed.

also, in the US the general rule of thumb is to avoid wine, although i have heard that in italy (my husband is from there) and denmark (best friend is danish) it is allowed. my ob/gyn knowing that my husband and I spend about equal amts of time in the US and Italy OK’ed wine post 1st trimester - but one glass or less a day.

I would love to hear what the Aussie docs have to say on this. And ohers.

ecobabe  on June 5, 2007

I’ve just read the new Australian Department of Health (NSW) pregnancy and eating guidelines and nitrates aren’t even mentioned! And in terms of cheese they just state “soft and semi-soft cheese”. Of course I’ve emailed for clarification

Up until recently the Australian drinking during pregnancy guidelines have been 7 standard drinks per week and no more than 2 in any one day. Much debate has recently seen a few health and paediatric bodies recommend zero alcohol during pregnancy and there doesn’t currently seem to be a single, ‘official’ type recommendation in this country.

ecobabe  on June 14, 2007

Here is a quite good clarification of listeria and cheeses. It basically answers many of the questions raised in this comments thread and defines hard and soft cheeses, in an Australian context

http://www.foodstandards.gov.au/newsroom/factsheets/factsheets2005/listeriacommonlyaske3115.cfm

Jade  on September 6, 2007

Listeria is not a red herring, it is however only recently discovered (in the past decades).
It is entirely likely that it has caused millions of miscarriages and still births over the past centuries as pasteurisation is a relatively recent invention.

The statement made above about 99% of cheese being pasteurised is very incorrect.
A bulk of cheeses are made by culturing with bacteria ie Blue Veined cheeses and ‘runny’ cheeses.

Rule of Thumb, most Processed cheese and a large quantity of hard cheeses are safe to eat, if in doubt… don’t eat it and check it out first.

There’s HUGE danger in saying ‘it’ll be fine’ and there’s _NO_ danger in just having something else.

conor  on September 6, 2007

Jade, if you could back up all the statements you made there with data I think it’d be far more useful.

“recent decades” meaning 1924?

Which of the commenters here said there was no danger?

Are you seriously claiming that soft/blue cheeses outsell cheddar etc?

Jen  on May 1, 2008

http://health.usnews.com/usnews/health/articles/070810/10pregnancy.ok.htm